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This is a privately owned blog. It is not and has never been an official organ of any ecclesiastical organization.

"No one man, or group of men, can himself speak for the Church of Christ. It is nonetheless possible to speak from within the Church, in conformity with Orthodox tradition; and it is this that we shall attempt to do." Fr. Seraphim Rose Orthodox Word #1 Jan-Feb 1965 p. 17

And A Unionite Response


Parent post:   http://rocorrefugees.blogspot.com/2009/10/sticky_21.html 


An Anti-Unionite sent a Vertograd article about MP recognizing Roman mysteries to several of his/her friends.  One of the friends, a Unionite, responded with such a perfect example of the Unionite denial, I have to share it.  It seems to cover all aspects typical of the Unionite denial - even down to the defending of the MP's atrocities and even starting to change their own thinking over to that of the MP.   – jh


From: Anti-Unionite
To: mixed group of friends, some unionite, some anti-unionite
Subject: Full Moscow Patriarchate - Rome Union Gets Closer
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009

With all the betrayals of the last decade, should this be any surprise?   A 

VERTOGRAD
Orthodox Journal
Newsletter No. 76, Wednesday, October 21, 2009. 02:43 P.M.
A MEMBER OF THE HOLY SYNOD OF THE MP STATES THAT HIS CHURCH RECOGNIZES ROMAN CATHOLIC MYSTERIES
“To all intent and purposes, mutual recognition of each others Mysteries already exists between us...[the whole rest of the article pasted in]



From: Unionite
To: Reply All
Subject: RE: Full Moscow Patriarchate - Rome Union Gets Closer

+
Dear [brother/sister] in Christ, Anti-Unionite!
If I want to hear about the latest "outrage" committed by our Heirarchs, I will visit one of the many Yahoo Groups seemingly dedicated to such rash presumption.  I find that, in my many moments of weakness in struggling against this temptation to judge, if I simply keep these rebellious thoughts to myself, I have much less to repent of, once I recognize my error.  To whit: guidance of the church is not my job, and that my root reason for wanting to share my "insight" is not out of brotherly concern (although I may manage to convince myself of this), but rather from a desire to be a big shot, to be a clarion, a rallying-point: someone special. Guidance of myself is my job, and it's a plenty big job without taking on the fantasy of being someone special.  Therefore, for your sake and mine, leave me off your cynical-one-line-snap-judgement mailing list, [brother/sister].  A congratulations on a nameday or a simple inquiry as to how life is going would, however, be most welcome.

I disagree with the implications of your assessment.
If only under such exceptional cases (deathbed) we are allowing that Orthodox-RC communion might take place, I see little change from what the Saints themselves did.  Vladika John was certainly not a revisionist, modernist or ecumenist.  With all the hard-heartedness of schismatics in the last 2 decades, it is, unfortunately, no surprise that there are those who would consider an Orthodox priest communing a devout papist on their deathbed a "betrayal".

Forgive me for making this an open letter response. I don't feel comfortable responding privately to statement made to a group.

in Christ our Hope,
Unionite




From: Anti-Unionite 
To: Reply All
Subject: RE: Full Moscow Patriarchate - Rome Union Gets Closer

Dear Unionite,

May I remind you that there is quite a difference between judgement and discernment. Preserving the Orthodox Faith is the job of every faithful Orthodox Christian. History is ripe with examples of lay people upholding the Faith, while plenty of Hierarchs and Clergy became infamous heretics.

An understanding that the Moscow Patriarchate was created by Stalin and is not a part of the Body of Christ, and is a tool of the Russian government, is essential in assessing the current MP pronouncements. Without this understanding (which is the historical position of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad) no further discussion on this matter will bear any fruit.

I do keep you and your family in my prayers, having many fond memories of them over the years, and wish everyone well.

Yours In Christ,
Anti-Unionite



From: joannahigginbotham@live.com
To: Anti-Unionite
Subject: RE: Full Moscow Patriarchate - Rome Union Gets Closer


Wow! Unionite is in such denial. Typical of being in denial, [he/she] wants to be left alone and asks to be taken off your "cynical" "judgmental" mailing list. The confusing of judgment with discernment is a glaring symptom, one of the major ploys used by the Father of £ies against 0rthodox Christians in a whole slough of things Satan wants us to ignore.

My heart goes out to my friend, Unionite.   He will not find relief until he either comes out of denial or goes into deep sleep.

Since he has asked to be taken off the list, it probably is the best thing to do. This is hardly the first time I've heard this request from somebody who has been railroaded into the union against their better judgment, and is trying to deal with it.  The few unionite friends I have that still talk to me have made it clear to me that it is out of bounds for me to rock their denial boat.  They avoid me, but I'll always be here for them.  I don't know what else to do.  We aren't really saying anything different than Newsweek or Time...

God, save us!



From:  Anti-Unionite
To: joannahigginbotham@live.com

Yeah, Denial ain't just a river in Egypt!

 Anti-Unionite    A :o)


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1. Unionite writes, "I find that, in my many moments of weakness in struggling against this temptation to judge, if I simply keep these rebellious thoughts to myself, I have much less to repent of, once I recognize my error."

This is the saddest thing for me. Unionite's conscience is trying to reach Unionite, and Unionite is dismissing it calling it "rebellious thoughts" and a "temptation to judge."  Such a painful internal battle for a human soul to bear!

2. I happen to know that Unionite was a victim in a certain "Orthodox cult abuse situation" in the ROCOR-MP some years ago.  Unionite was able to extract himself from that situation, eventually.  But I never felt Unionite was totally cured of the "Obedience Unto Destruction" syndrome that Fr. Seraphim Rose tried to warn against.

"Now of the lion one need have no fear; the leopard is a gentle creature, and even the snake you are terrified by is likely to turn to flight.  But there is one thing you must beware of, I assure you.  Bad bishops.  Don't be overawed by the dignity of the throne.  All have dignity, yes; but not all have the grace." -St. Gregory the Theologian

This warning can be extended to priests who follow bad bishops.

3. Unionite writes, "A congratulations on a nameday or a simple inquiry as to how life is going would, however, be most welcome."

This is basically what I hear from every unionite who will still speak to me.  They lay the ground rules for the possibility of having the friendship continue.  The subject of the union is 100% off limits.  Similar to the alcoholic who does not permit discussion of his drinking. If the unionites were so sure they were right, wouldn't they want to convince a friend and help the friend understand? But, no, without fail, each and everyone has closed the door.  Mother Theodora of Holy Cross cancelled her prepaid lifetime subscription to Living Orthodoxy magazine when she learned that Fr. Gregory had not gone into the union.  And monk Joseph ceased writing me – not even a namesday greeting.  A unionite friend in Texas says she is aware of what her priest is and what he does, but she does not want to hear about it.  And simply saying he is pro-union is one of those things she knows, but does not want to be reminded of it.


Let me tell about something that is true.  In 1995 I met a man [who is dead now] named George Howard Lynn III.  He can be found on the internet -http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-926020.html.  When George met the witch, he was an English professor and football coach at the height of his career at Auburn University in Alabama.  He had a squeeky clean record.  The witch ruined his life.  One of the spells she put on him was a "love spell".  Satan does not know anything about love, but he can mimic it by causing a person to be obsessed with another person.  The demons invoked for the spell will use any weakness they can find in the victim.  Because individuals have different weaknesses to different degrees, the spell is "successful" to different degrees according to the victim's vulnerabilty.  George apparently was very vulnerable because he even himself believed that he was "in love" with the witch.

One of the results of George being spellbound was that he could not bear to hear anything bad said about Nancy.  Even though he knew she worshipped Satan [George was a Baptist], even though he knew she was a murderer [she was serving a life sentence], even though he knew she had cheated on him when they were married.  If anything bad was said about the witch in front of him, you could visibly see that he was greatly pained by it.   He could not bear to hear it.

Now, compare this about George with Unionite's first statement, "If I want to hear about the latest 'outrage' committed by our Heirarchs...".

He won't listen.

It suggests to me that these unionites who were railroaded into the union are in some "mass denial" a mass hypnotism.   My idea is not so far fetched.  We know the KGB has been doing experiments with controlling people using all means including mass psychology, mass hypnosis and calling on evil spirits.  Remember the book, "Psychic Discoveries Behind The Iron Curtain" [circa 1970]?

And there is nothing new about the idea. We know that Jezebel put spells on the "whole city" not just individuals.  We know that countries and churches have their angels, it makes sense that a fallen angel could be assigned [by a sorcerer] to a group of people. To learn more about sorcery from an Orthodox perspective, read the life of St. Cyprian & St. Justina http://startingontheroyalpath.blogspot.com/2009/07/lifes-of-sts-cyprian-and-justina.html